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Take a look at the sign gracing the front of the cathedral parish in Kansas.
They are proud to be a part of the International Communication of the Charismatic Episcopal Church… er…um… I think they meant Communion.
Perhaps this is a new splinter movement within the ICCEC. Or, I’m reading a bit much into a typo that seems to have slipped through the cracks.
This was posted to the livejournal page for St. Michael’s Cathedral back in July:
Kevin Barry+ (all the way to the right) was formerly at St. Michael’s and served as a Canon Missioner. He’s pictured here as he travelled with ++Adler to Africa.
Today, I learned of a podcast featuring Barry+ and Matthew Cuthbertson, another one formerly at St. Michael’s and an inquirer into Orthdoxy.
(I’ve only listened to a few minutes of this as I’m posting this and it irked me that the Orthodox priest hosting this podcast referred to Canon Barry as “Mr. Barry.”)
This comment from papaz was in response to a post that I made back in July when I discovered that an “Intergenerational Healing Questionnaire” used in prayer ministry was on the KS cathedral parish’s website. (See my original post here).
Read my post first and then the comment below. I thought it best to bring papaz’s comment to the front of the blog so that no one could miss this. It’s worth a read.
November 16, 2007 at 9:54 pm
papazAfter a great deal of thought and consideration, I feel that I must respond here.
A couple of points: 1) I do believe that there can be such things as generational issues, etc. 2) I enormously mistrust many, if not most, people who claim this ministry, because of the tremendous possibility for abuse. Throughout my life, people have accused me of not believing in spiritual warfare, because of the mistrust I have expressed for the kooks in the field. Actually, the reverse is true. I do believe in spiritual warfare, and it is because I take it as seriously as I do, I tend to get very nervous when some kook dabbles in something very dangerous. 3) Michael and Cathie Davidson have, in my opinion (and personal experience) a very unhealthy, even dangerous, fascination with this subject.
Now on to the application itself: 1) Please note that one of the “resources” listed is the Davidson’s own teaching on the subject. This, in and of itself, while not a fatal flaw, does give one pause. One typically has to be careful citing one’s self. 2) I have been in ministry, in one form or another, for about a quarter century. For various schools, jobs, or positions, I have been required to take many, if not most, of the standard psychological testing instruments. I have never, in either my educational or ministerial career, ever seen a questionnaire quite like this one. I’m not saying that they don’t exist – I’m sure that they do – but this questionnaire, as presented here, has no business whatsoever being used outside an extremely tightly controlled professional environment. This is not the sort of thing to which your average parish volunteer should ever – ever be subjected. 3) While admitting that questionnaires of this sort may be of value in the aforementioned extremely tightly controlled environment, there are aspects of THIS particular questionnaire which range from the silly to the offensive. Some examples:
In the section under “Occult” does anyone (other than the Davidsons, apparently) truly believe that Science Fiction movies are comparable to Black Magic? Or that Yoga is comparable to Necromancy? Or that acupuncture is comparable to holding a séance?
In the section under “Secret Organizations, Cults, False Religions, Occult, and Mind Control” is it honest to compare pledging a college fraternity with the list of various cults mentioned? Does anyone really want to put the Knights of Columbus (an extremely faithful Catholic organization) with Satanism?
What this is, folks, is a control grab, dressed up as an “inner healing” program. I worked in this diocese for many years, and witnessed – first hand – information about persons which should have been confidential (and which the persons involved thought WERE confidential) to be abused. Anyone actually considering submitting this questionnaire to the CCOK needs to seriously reconsider. You are potentially handing a dangerous weapon to someone who has demonstrated (in my opinion and experience) that he can and will abuse it.
As reported in the comments section, it appears the parish council at the Kansas cathedral parish had a long meeting, basically sang “kumbaya” and is moving on. Hald commented that it was a long meeting and his opinions were heard. It does not appear anything huge was decided except to move on. Most indications were that a “statement” was to be read and that the bishop was not on trial or anything like that.
From On Our Way Home . . . no real meeting happening tonight in Kansas. Instead, the parish faithful will be treated to a “statement”. This from a forwarded e-mail from within the church there in KS.
It’s just awesome that you can be the mouthpiece of God on the one hand, but when you screw up as a bishop, don’t worry because God will sort it out. Perhaps I’m the only one reading that in +Davidson’s e-mail…
Dear ********:
I forgot to mention that the Cathedral Council will not be the place or time to answer in detail questions you have. …. At the Council meeting I will present a statement on what has happened, deal with questions and then we will move on to other business concerning the building of the Cathedral. There is not much I can say. Also, I am not here to defend myself.
The main issue here is not about trust in the bishops. Church history is full of leadership failures. The real issue as a catholic is trusting in God. He is well able to deal with leaders who will not listen to His correction.
Perhaps you can submit major questions you have and I will try to answer them. Doing this will help you to formulate what your real concerns are. I in no way am trying to dismiss you. ….it seems you have deeper issues to deal with than I can address in our brief time at this meeting. Most of the leadership on the council are anxious to move ahead.
Therefore, please forward any questions you have.
God bless,
+mike
I have been informed by e-mail and in the comments section that the meeting happening next week in the Central Diocese is for the cathedral parish leadership only and not at all a territory-wide forum. Oops. I sit and type corrected.
I’ve been most grateful to many of you who have e-mailed me. I have been hearing of similar experiences in the CEC from across the country and around the world, even. It’s kind of strange that we could all have the same experience but be in different places of the world and serving with different clergy and under different bishops. However, the tale always ends the same. Try to speak up, “off with your head!” Try to leave, “off with your head!”
I’ve also been awash in a sea of comments that are not ready for prime time. Again, when you start your comment off with, “Dear Satan worshipper,” you’ve completely lost me. Chances are high that it’s not making the blog. Don’t like it? Start your own. But, thanks for at least summoning the courtesy to start off with the word “Dear”.
Not much news to report on the CEC front. It appears from skimming the other forums such as On Our Way Home and Ancient-Future that the cathedral in Kansas seems to be a hotbed of activity leading up to a provincial meeting on Nov. 11th. So, wars and rumors of wars happening in the Central Province and all else quiet elsewhere, I suppose. More later as it happens!
WOW… on the On Our Way Home forum, +Rick Painter breaks his silence. Incredible insights, as always, from Bishop Rick (I always enjoy saying his name fast as in “bishopric”).
Click here to see the post by +Painter or see below…
I have just been reconnected to the internet after having been off during our recent selling, buying, remodeling, and moving into our new church facility. So, I come a little late to this conversation.
This is my first time ever to post on this, or any blog, forum, or what have you. I have read with a broken heart many of your posts. Also, I have experienced anger, disgust, and downright indignation at some of the posts.
First, unless you sat with us in the HOB in the CEC you do not truly know what we confronted and what we did not confront. Most of the confrontations had to take place out side of the “official” meetings because of the “controlled atmosphere”. Even when we were told we could speak out we knew it would be turned on us and used against us.
Last year someone posted my letter in support of +Ken Myers and his wonderful wife, Shirley. In that letter I called the CEC a “cult”. I have since been blamed for ” making the CEC a cult by my calling it one”. Interesting. The point of that letter was my being appalled that none of the Patriarch’s Council had responded to their letters…in any fashion at all. As a member of the HOB when they wrote us I responded to all of the Bishops with that letter. I would do so again.
A few simple facts:
I, as did others at other times, made personal trips to San Clemente to confront +Adler regarding his personal problems and the overall problems in the CEC. I did this at least three times, at my own expense, not my church’s or my diocese’s. Also, I confronted him publicly and privately at various meetings of the leadership, both in SC and other venues. In addition, there were many very loud phone confrontations between +Adler and me.
Several of us confronted him over the debacle he led in Manila. He was warned that the CEC was coming apart if he did not change, get help, and/or step aside for the good of the communion. All of this he refused, denied, ignored, used against us, and on and on ad nauseum…
Some of we Bishops had quit “having a drink” with the others and some of us never smoked. I quit along with another Bishop I will not name because I refused to allow my conduct to contribute to the continued disintegration of a church…I have never smoked anything, period. For this I, and others were ridiculed…so be it.
I am the Bishop that watched +Adler leer at Shirley Myers that fateful night. Everytime he got up to go in the house I would go in to be sure she was not alone with him. I was so angry that I did not say something for fear of starting a physical fight with the man. (That had almost happened on another occasion.)When he brought up his most recent “revelation”, read heresy, I and another Bishop left for the hotel. I haved since apologized to Shirley and +Ken for failing them that night by not speaking up. Ever been so disgusted and mad you did not know what to do? Then you can understand where I was…no excuse.
Those of you that have questioned whether what he did was “sexual harrassment” or not…need to understand that is not the issue, although by definition it is exactly that! The issue is this man was, and sounds like still is, wrong and refusing to deal with it. I am not his judge and I pray every day for the man…but, those of us with training enough to be psychologists, and some were, did confront him, repeatedly, to no avail. And, when we talked with the others in leadership they would “marginalize” us or tell us it was “being taken care of”.
Further, the structure of the CEC leadership was such that the HOB was absolutely powerless to effect change, correction, or any such thing. All…repeat, all decisions were made by either the Patriarch’s or Primate’s Council which in actuality boiled down to +Adler getting his way. In the end, that was not always the case in those two privy councils…but, it had been for so long it was BAU.
I realize I open myself up to all kinds of responses, so be it. Please know I have thought long and hard before I have undertaken to add my two cents worth.
I am praying for Joni, Victoria, Celine, et al at St. Michaels’. I pray for Fr. Barry, Fr. Cuthbertson, and Fr. Olkie and thier families…these are good men. I pray for +Kessler, Cn. House and the other SM clergy, we all had some great times together and these are good people that, like all of us, got caught up in something that went out of control. I pray for Betty and the Adler family…how heartbreaking all of this is. I pray for Dan Sharp and his precious wife Priscilla, how sad. I pray for those trying to lead the CEC out of and forward from this mess. God have mercy on all of us.
In closing one of the Bishops that left said something that really describes what happened to us, “They, our leadership, took advantage of our goodnes. They used the things our parents and grandparents built into us, against us…character, honor, loyalty, and such old fashioned traits”.
Thanks Mike for allowing this overly long post.
Pro Dei Regno,
+Rick
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