A little sharing...a little humor...some analysis and all to try to make sense of my time in the Charismatic Episcopal Church. My e-mail: cechealingblog@gmail.com
From one of the Bishops in the CEC – ++Woodall was not deposed.
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(comment from ctkcec)
Archbishop Woodall was NOT deposed. Such action would require an action of the House of Bishops. Fr Dundas is incorrect.
+ David Epps
Diocese of the Mid-South
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February 2, 2011 at 1:17 am
jzholloway
Actually, according to the Canon Law, Canon 6.IV it would be done by the Patriarch’s Council or a Tribunal, which I believe Bishop Epps is not apart of, at least the Patriarch’s Council. It does not require the entire House of Bishops, just like when former Abp. Dale Howard was deposed, even though the House spoke unanimously in support of it as my father and I believe Abp. Jones tried to race him down to the airport.
I am not saying he was deposed, and from talking to Abp. Woodall myself, I do not believe he was… again, it is possible the Patriarch might have used deposition as a motivator for something, but hopefully we will never know because it does not matter.
With all due respect to Bp. Epps, who I love and respect, the people in the CEC need to know their Canon Law, whether they plan on following or not.
February 2, 2011 at 2:59 am
padresteve
Bishop Epps
Respectfully, I have a source that is close to the situation and staying in the CEC that informed me of this. I cannot name that individual in this forum or any other. But I tell the truth of what I know and unfortunately I know more than I should. Based on what I have seen and heard from a number of sources I can only believe that to be the case.
My concern is for my friends that remain in the CEC and those that chose to leave. Though I am not in the CEC I was included on e-mails from Bishop Woodall that disappointed me immensely especially from some of the crap I have taken from CEC posters on this site. I left as an individual and did not approach anyone to leave with me or even give that appearance.
I have said numerous times that I only wish the best for the CEC in spite of how I felt that it failed me in the crisis.
Hopefully this is my last word because truthfully I find the whole matter unseemly and distasteful. It smacks to me of a mutiny and a cover up. Maybe its not, but this cranky and cynical old officer can only see it in that light.
Peace
Steve+
February 2, 2011 at 3:13 am
anon4cec
I agree with Jared — he may or not have been deposed, but such a thing can be done by a minority of bishops without anyone’s knowledge, as was the case when Adler came under the gun. Most likely, the threat of deposition was held over him to force him to resign, as going through a deposition hearing might have jeopardized his acceptance by the ACNA. I just find it telling that the old political shenanigans are alive and well in the new and improved CEC.
February 2, 2011 at 5:06 am
padresteve
One last comment to clarify. Even if the he was not formally “deposed” in a canonical sense, a resignation under the threat of deposition is no different than a resignation accepted in lieu of courts-martial. It is just a softer way to do it without having to go though the shame and embarrassment of the canonical deposition or in the case of a courts-martial.
February 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm
frjim123
Let me clarify again on this thread: Leadership in ACNA reported to me that Doug Woodall is not in ACNA and will not be received as clergy in ACNA. He may end up with another jurisdiction somewhere that wears the Anglican label, but as of yesterday, he is not in ACNA.
-Jim+
February 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm
jzholloway
Wow… someone agrees with me…
sorry, off work and bored!
February 3, 2011 at 1:48 pm
ctkcec
If I am in error, I apologize. Perhaps I should have stated that as a bishop in the CEC, I am unaware of any deposition action or threat of same.
+ David Epps
February 6, 2011 at 2:26 am
anon4cec
From Virtue On Line:
“The Most Rev. Douglas Woodall resigned as Archbishop of United States Armed Service and Federal Chaplaincy of the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Churches (ICEEC).
Archbishop Woodall stated as his reason for leaving the ICCEC was to join the Missionary Diocese of All Saints under the Anglican Church of North America. The Patriarch, who also serves as the Primate of North America, regretfully accepted Archbishop Woodall’s resignation.
However, a source inside the Charismatic Episcopal Church (CEC) told VOL that Woodall has not been received by the ACNA. VOL has confirmed that the ACNA has not received him nor has the Missionary Diocese of All Saints (FiF) under Bishop William Ilgenfritz. Bishop Derek Jones, Suffragan bishop for chaplaincies for the ACNA told VOL, “We are working with the CEC to straighten out the confusion that has been created as a result of Archbishop Woodall’s departure.”
CANA, on behalf of the ACNA and the Deanery for the chaplaincy that Bishop Jones leads for CANA, is working directly with individual chaplains who are seeking reception into the ACNA.
The CEC is not affiliated with the Anglican Communion, nor does it consider itself a Continuing Anglican Church body. They are an Anglican denomination begun in the early 90′s.”
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=13909
February 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm
jzholloway
Since when was the CEC “Anglican”… ? Granted, the CEC uses the BCP… or rather has used the BCP in the USA, but I do not believe the CEC has ever truly been Anglican… claimed Anglican roots yes, but not really considered herself Anglican.
Also, just for clarification, Doug Woodall does not have to enter ACNA as a bishop or a priest, and can just enter as a communicant. I am not saying anything either way, but for some reason we always assume that clergy who leave always go as clergy, not simply as human beings.
Lastly, I appreciate Bishop Epps’ clarification, however, I continue my “depression” with the fact that people within the CEC, particularly those in leadership positions, do not know the Canon Law. Yes, I m aware that the CEC imposed a “moratorium” on the Canon Law, etc… but does the CEC realize that is truly impossible, IBM cannot impose a moratorium on their By-laws, neither can a church or denomination. I love the CEC, and I have both defended her on this blog as well as expressed frustration, and whether right or wrong, I do know this, if the CEC cannot follow her own rules, she will fail and fall. I do not believe that the reason the CEC had her issues this past decade was just because of “people,” I believe that a major part of it was the inability to follow the Canon Law. Yeah, the CEC is working on a “new” canon law, the problem is, one is already in place, and as a corporation, you have to have it, and you have to follow it. I think the CEC is blessed that people have only left and gone somewhere else and not taken legal action.
February 12, 2011 at 7:42 pm
artlocain
The following appeared in the CEC article on wikipedia:
On January 26, 2011, Archbishop Douglas Woodall resigned as Ordinary for the Armed Forces following a number of very tumultuous years in his private and professional life. On January 15, 2009, Abp Woodall’s son, Douglas Jr. was convicted in Florida for felony sex crimes against a minor [1]. Douglas Jr. remains incarcerated in the State of Florida. This occurred during the same time frame as the foreclosure of two of Abp Woodall’s houses in South Carolina and Florida and his subsequent bankruptcy. [2] Abp Woodall stated that he resigned in order to join the Mission Diocese of All Saints, Anglican Church in America (ACNA).[3] However, that statement was refuted by Bishop Derick Jones and other sources within ACNA. [4][5]
Abp Woodall’s first marriage ended in failure. His son from that marriage is a convicted sex offender. The reports that I heard was the Abp Woodall bought a second house in St Augstine, Fl, despite that fact that he was having trouble paying for his other house in South Carolina. He defaulted on both properties and was foreclosed on by the mortgage holders. Then, he and his second wife filed for and were awarded bankruptcy. This does not paint the picture of a man who keeps his house and finances in order as the New Testament says a bishop should do.
Also, there are reports that Abp Woodall was only in part-time ministry because for the last four or more years, he was serving as a full-time deputy sheriff in St Augustine. Then there are the reports that Abp Woodall was trying to steal all of the CEC military chaplains to go to ACNA. Why would a sane man do that?
November 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm
douglaswoodall
Not knowing who “artlocain” is, it’s hard to reply to an anonymous source. However, there are several half truths I’d like to address in response to his vicious attack.
1. I did file for bankruptcy protection at the advice of our financial counselor and attorney based on our having a pretty drastic reduction in income, two houses which had been on the market for quite some time (The one in Spartanburg for almost four years). We have since settled this completely, resolving all outstanding debts. Anyone who has a mind would know thousands of other Christians found themselves in the same boat due to the downturn of the economy and circumstances beyond their control..
2. My oldest son is 45 years old. I cannot accept responsibility for his actions as an adult. When he called to let me know of his actions three years ago, I urged him to turn himself in and make a full confession. He was subsequently tried and convicted for his conduct. He is presently serving his sentence.
3. My first marriage sadly did end in divorce however, this was filed by my first wife several months after she left our family. I was ordained then with the Pentecostal Holiness Church and their investigation showed their were biblical reason for the divorce which I will not go into here.
4. I did resign from the CEC after learning I had been received by the forward in Faith Missionary Diocese of All Saints which was a missionary diocese in the ACNA. Initially, the plan was to form a Military Vicariate as several of the Chaplains in the CEC had made it known they were interested in leaving the CEC as they too felt they were Anglicans. Bps. Ilgenfritz and Lipka were supportive of this until learning the ACNA had decided to use CANA’s endorser, Bp. Derek Jones, as the sole endorser of the ACNA after the REC endorser retired. I was received as a bishop. I transferred into the newly formed Diocese of the Gulf Atlantic and function as a priest at the same church we had served at for the past several years.
5. I was not working as a full time deputy after coming back to St. Augustine. I was a Reserve Deputy, working part time with no set schedule. I have served as a law enforcement officer since 1972 with the exception of the two years I served a church in Canada. I have since retired as a county employee after having enough time with the county from past service and my more recent part time service.
6. I did not “try” to get every CEC priest to go with me into the MDAS. I was in the process of notifying them of my decision and letting them know there was a place for them too in the MDAS if they felt this was where the Lord was leading them. I wish the entire CEC would affiliate with the ACNA and made this clear in our House of Bishops and Patriarch Council Meetings. I was told that would never happen, which helped prompt my decision.
7. Although not addressed in “artlocain’s” statement, I’d like to address the method of finance in the CEC. We all knew from the git go that the CEC required 10% of one’s income to go to either a church’s rector or the bishop of the diocese if a priest was not serving a parish. The Canons of the CEC, which I did not write, required chaplains to pay 10% of their base income to the Diocese of the Armed Forces. From these funds 10% went to the Patriarch’s Office and the rest was used for the salary, housing, and expenses of the bishop. All travel, dues, office equipment, stationary, accounting expenses, etc came out of the chaplain’s tithe. A budget was submitted to the Primate;s Office each year and was available to the chaplains as it was a part of public record. Simply put, we all followed the Canons of the CEC.
8. I can’t stop the few people who frequent this site and the two or three on “Shockedatwoodall’s” blog site from judging me or criticizing me but I do thank God He is my final Judge. I’d also like to say that none of those who have hidden behind an anonymous name on this and another blog have ever confronted me with their concerns or criticisms. Those who really know me are man enough to let me know when they feel I am missing the mark. They do so in love and I know they have my best interests at heart.
9. Last but certainly not least, I would like to apologize to any person who feels I have hurt them. I have not intended to hurt anyone so for those I have obviously hurt or offended, please forgive me.
February 12, 2011 at 7:50 pm
artlocain
It appears to me and a lot of other people I know that it Douglas Woodall should have resigned as a bishop and retired from ministry. The shambles of his out of control life and his unethical attempt at stealing clergy from one church to bring them to another, with no sort of a doctrinal or moral emergency going on, strongly proves that Douglas Woodall has disqualified himself from active ministry. He probably also disqualified himself from being an approval endorser for military chaplains. I am quite certain that the military has rules forbidding the actions that former Abp Woodall committed.
February 16, 2011 at 2:03 am
jzholloway
I find it interesting that no one has either commented negatively to my last comment nor positively… I guess, and now assume, that those who left the CEC have already given up on the CEC’s Canon Law and it being followed, and that those who remain are happy to keep on keeping on… sad.
You may say that I hate the CEC and I want her to fail… nothing could be further from the truth… I don’t even care if the CEC abides by the Canons and takes care of my father and mother… I just want the CEC, from now forward to know her Canons and abide by them, until they are changed.
as Christ said, “(loosely) It would be better for you to tie an anchor around your neck then to mislead one of these,” It would be better for the CEC to be honest and follor her canons then tgo not… to have canons and not follow them is not only dishonest, but illegal.
If you say I have no proof.. and that I am just pissed off because of my parents, you are wrong. Fr. Dave Klampert in Middle Town, RI, who changed the name of his church from St. Michael’s CEC to Lifepath (nothing) does not vest at all on Sunday, the church service is nothing more than a priest leading an evangelical/charismatic church service, they even “auctioned” off blessed church items. I know this because I attend tghere, atleast once or twice a month. It sickens me, but I do not want to go through the 6 month process of Rome, and I still hold out a possibility of Holy Orders, if I am no longer blackmailed.
To me, the CEC is irrelevant, but at least she promotes herself well.
March 9, 2011 at 1:55 am
jzholloway
It’s been awhile
first, I want to clarify that I was not attempting to “call out” Bishop Epps on the Canons thing, I was simply trying to clarify the Canons. I had 2 years almost… well… at least 1 and a half years experience studying the Canon of the ICCEC for my dad, who was the chairman of that committee. I firmly respect, even through our disagreements, +Epps, please let that be known.
Secondly, on Fr, Klampert, I redact nothing. The reason I said anything is because it has been over 1 1/2 years since I have been here and nothing has changed. I have talked to Fr. Dave as well as his son Joel, and nothing has changed, and it is clear nothing will.
Yes, the Canons can be seen as legalistic, however, the Canons, as well as a Catechism, is what holds a denomination or communion together… seeing that the CEC does Canons are required, and are required to be followed. If there is no bishop, no law, no overseer with something he knows how to oversee, there is no Church.
I love what the CEC used to represent, and I believe she can get there again, at least I pray and hope so. I also know, people will take advantage of loopholes, it has already happened. I also know that certain parts of the CEC are paranoid at this, and prevention, wrongfully, has already happened.
To me, and I know I do not matter, the CEC must be honest, transparent, and faithful; that means to her people and her Canons.
As a postscript: If I offended anyone, I am sorry, but I will not take anything back, it was not my wish to offend, but inform, or to create possible dialogue, Bp. Epps, I do apologize for “correcting” you, that was not my intention to come across that way, I was simply trying to inform, I meant no disrespect, to you or your office.